Checkpoints Still Rousting Gringos About License Plates and Import Permits

The police agencies continue checkpoints at points of entry around Morelia
stopping people coming and going. I have heard of Federal, State, and Municipal
agencies participating in this.

These agencies are either unaware of the laws effecting foreigners and their
temporarily imported vehicles or have some other motives. They have been
reported to use bullying tactics and also reported to accept payments.

Federal and Military agencies have have more extensive authority, such as
authority to search your vehicle looking for firearms and drugs. It seems this
checkpoint system they have been using the past few weeks has provided reason
to use more aggressive and menacing tactics threatening to impound your vehicle.

It is advisable to arm yourself with the law, Articulo 106, particularly the
applicable section that covers your situation, Fraccion IV which essentially
states that if you have the holographic import sticker on your windshield and a
current visa of the proper kind, which can be the Tourist Permit, No-Inmigrado,
or Inmigrado Rentista, then without further extenuating circumstances your
vehicle should be legal for YOU to operate it or at minimum must be present as
passenger in that vehicle.

It is necessary to have copies or originals of these documents and have your
immigrations documents with you as by now almost everyone should have the credit
card-sized visa document. Also it would be recommended to carry a copy of
Articulo 106 or at least the applicable section. It is also recommended to
obtain such document or at least to copy and paste the following law section into a
word processing document and print it out to keep in your glovebox or with your
other automotive documents you keep in your vehicle:
_____________


ARTICULO 106. Se entiende por regimen de importacion temporal, la entrada al
pais de mercancias para permanecer en el por tiempo limitado y con una finalidad
especifica, siempre que retornen al extranjero en el mismo estado, por los
siguientes plazos.

FRACCION IV. Por el plazo que dure su calidad migratoria, incluyendo sus
prorrogas, en los casos.

a) Las de vehículos propiedad de extranjeros que se internen al país con calidad
de inmigrantes rentistas o de no inmigrantes, excepto tratándose de refugiados y
asilados políticos, siempre que se trate de un solo vehículo.

Los vehículos podrán ser conducidos en territorio nacional por el importador, su
cónyuge, sus ascendientes, descendientes o hermanos, aun cuando éstos no sean
extranjeros, por un extranjero que tenga alguna de las calidades migratorias a
que se refiere este inciso, o por un nacional, siempre que en este último caso,
viaje a bordo del mismo cualquiera de las personas autorizadas para conducir el
vehículo y podrán efectuar entradas y salidas múltiples.

Los vehículos a que se refiere este inciso, deberán cumplir con los requisitos
que señale el Reglamento.

Peter:

This topic has been discussed on a number of boards and I personally wonder if this is a true "rousting of Gringos" or a concerted effort to reel in the problem with "chocolates"? Sure there are some Gringos out there who may have purchased NOB vehicles illegally from departing Gringos but that problem is probably a great deal less than Mexicans driving chocolate vehicles. In some of the news reports I have read, it also appears that they are impounding vehicles without plates and we are all aware of who tend to operate those vehicles.

On the other hand, for Mexico to allow vehicles on their highways with NOB expired plates as long as they are in possession of legal visas seems ludicrous!

cheenagringo wrote:

Peter:

This topic has been discussed on a number of boards and I personally wonder if this is a true "rousting of Gringos" or a concerted effort to reel in the problem with "chocolates"? Sure there are some Gringos out there who may have purchased NOB vehicles illegally from departing Gringos but that problem is probably a great deal less than Mexicans driving chocolate vehicles. In some of the news reports I have read, it also appears that they are impounding vehicles without plates and we are all aware of who tend to operate those vehicles.

I am not suggesting these checkpoints are there merely to harrass gringos. If that is what you drew from it you have missed the point entirely. Gringos, the HUGE numbers of us here in Michoacán that must number in the HUNDREDS, are being caught in their chocolate checks, with completely legal papers and following the laws to the letter. are often being bullied by police who either are not aware of the laws or are looking for a mordida. Some Mexicans I know with questionable vehicles have been paying $200mx and being let loose. The police see pesos in their eyes when questionable vehicles pass through their checkpoints.

Quote :

On the other hand, for Mexico to allow vehicles on their highways with NOB expired plates as long as they are in possession of legal visas seems ludicrous!

Do you think Mexico would receive ONE PESO of the revenue I would pay California for the privilege of NOT driving on their streets or anywhere in the US? Do you honestly think California provides me, in any way whatsoever, a means of keeping my plates current with them other than returning across the border each year, purchasing US insurance, and performing a smog certification? I have not left Mexico since 2007 and do not intend ever to do so if it can be prevented. Why in god's name should I pay another country to be able to drive in Mexico?

However, each year I renew my visa, pay a fee for it that includes an amount for Aduana, apparently, that permits me to use my vehicle on Mexico's roads. It is THEIR law! If Mexico had a provision where I could use my import permit and visa to qualify me to pay for Mexican plates each year I would be more than willing to do so. As it is, I follow their law and buy Mexican insurance for my vehicle.

Your statement in that regard surpasses ludicrous and has got to be one of the most idiotic statements I have heard in this ongoing conversation on any of the discussion boards. Or did I miss some point you were wishing to make?

Peter:

It was not intended to cause a controversy re: the laws of Mexico regarding foreign plated vehicles! Foreign residents are abiding by the Rule of Law and I certainly am not criticizing them for that. How can I when our former Mexico car was Oregon plated with lapsed tags? And I certainly understand the "special hooks" that CA maintains when one has current plates in that lovely State.

However, I continue to be amazed that the Mexican Govt. doesn't see a revenue stream by accommodating the licensing of formerly foreign plated vehicles. Granted this is a NOB solution but when we moved from Oregon to NM, we were required to acquire NM plates for that vehicle and the same was true when we brought the Mexico vehicle back NOB.

To take this discussion one step further, I cannot see much choice for Mexican law enforcement when they have foreign plated vehicles that are legal due to visa status and then thousands more that are in one way or the other illegal. Granted there exists a lack of knowledge on law enforcement's part and an opportunity to collect Pesos on the side.

So to answer your final question: "Or did I miss some point you were wishing to make?" I admit to being unclear in my point and I can assure you that I wasn't attempting to stir the pot!

Peter wrote:

However, each year I renew my visa, pay a fee for it that includes an amount for Aduana, apparently, that permits me to use my vehicle on Mexico's roads.

Where did you come up with this little bit of nonsense?

manuel dexterity wrote:

Peter wrote:

However, each year I renew my visa, pay a fee for it that includes an amount for Aduana, apparently, that permits me to use my vehicle on Mexico's roads.

Where did you come up with this little bit of nonsense?

Just a generalization based on the idea that Aduana is OK with the whole arrangement. That could be my fallacy and fantasy but nevertheless that annual fee goes to Mexico's federal government. Seems it was about $35 I initially paid to bring in that current model year vehicle, which in my estimation is dirt-cheap. The difference between a tourist bringing in a vehicle temporarily and the visa holder keeping his vehicle for an extended period is the annual visa renewal in which a fee is paid. Eventually it ends up in some common federal coffer or being paid out to various federal programs and Aduana makes no further demand.

If the whole deal is much more complicated than that then I'm glad you're here to help shed some light. Feel free to rein-in any of my assumptions and generalizations when you know the truth to be further afield. Welcome aboard.

Peter wrote:

If the whole deal is much more complicated than that then I'm glad you're here to help shed some light. Feel free to rein-in any of my assumptions and generalizations when you know the truth to be further afield. Welcome aboard.

When you pay the annual fee for your FM3/2 does INM ask if you have a foreign plated vehicle in the country? The same exact fee btw people who don't possess a temporarily imported vehicle pay?

For the relative newcomers, this little change in the law is fairly recent and wasn't always this way. There used to be a very profitable business in supplying new papers for vehicles that had "overstayed" their allowed time. And Mexico recognized that by making things easier for retirees would bring more into the country to reside.

Things are so incredibly easy and convenient these days for those in your situation.

Incredible. As if the nice weather alone were not enough to attract retirees from all over the world. Apparently those checkpoint chaps don't view foreign retirees in the same light.

From the sounds of reports, Guadalajara must have received the MEMO from Morelia on the opportunities that vehicle documentation or lack thereof presented. Bu the complaints piling up on TOB, it seems that foreign plates are drawing attention in Jalisco now.

Maybe it's a travelling band of bad cops. I haven't heard any complaints around here for awhile. It was about 12 days ago I went to Capula and didn't encounter any checkpoints leaving or re-entering Morelia.

Which OB was TOB you were speaking of? I'm likely a member of it but haven't been visiting TOB's recently and really don't feel like going down the list looking for the discussion.

Yes, you are a member! To make it easy on you, here in a link:
http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=163834;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

cheenagringo wrote:

Yes, you are a member! To make it easy on you, here in a link:
http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=163834;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Thanks, Neil. Brings back old memories. Many moons since I've been there. I believe you just happend to let me know of TO OB that was gaining traction around Lakeside one morning just after Rolly deleted my post to some troll-ette that used regularly find some news article/body count and post it without a comment except to ask "what do all of you think about this?" I believe I told her to quit trolling and tell US what SHE thinks about that. I never had anything against Rolly but I don't recall us ever having much of a rapport. His deleting that post kind of let me know it was time to move on. Then you PM'd me and let me know where some of my friends had disappeared to.

As regards the checkpoint situation, it's been quiet here with no one complaining lately. I hadn't left Morelia in several weeks and made sure I had all my documents at easy access along with the number of two attorneys to call if I encountered an ill-mannered cop on my way to Capula, but I saw no checkpoints that day.

I had planned on making a trip to Lakeside this past week or so but delayed that after my marathon dental trip weakened my immune system and caught a bug, then the kitchen started coming together, and right now Tere is just getting over a stomach flu. Seeing that Lakeside is playing that game at this time I think I won't bother going for awhile.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest if I don't leave the house at all. I think I will just take Tere, her visiting neice Vidi, and Tere's son Manuel out to Wang Jiao for comida China instead of the suggested trip to Ajijic. We'll use a taxi. My SUV has over 14K miles on it now.

It is fascinating and telling that there are serious complaints both here and at Lakeside and in Guadalajara that local transit cops at the lake, the Guadalajara metropolitan zone and around parts of Michoacan are harassing foreigners to collect lunch money and, since you guys are writing about this apparent phenomenon I must tell you that, in that region where few foreigners live, this is absolutely not an issue down in Chiapas, whether in the highlands around San Cristóbal, the state capital in the large city of Tuxtla Gutierrez or the Suconosco along the Pacific Coast from Arriaga to Tapachula. These Jalisco and Michoacan cops are harassing you foreigners living in these parts and, as I have just returned from Chiapas to live for a few months at Lake Chapala after six months in San Cristobal, I expect to be hit up for my personal contribution.

Nothing to be done about it, though. Pay your mordida and move on. A corrupt society is a corrtupt society. At least here, as opposed to the United States, they are taking money from you up front for the workers rather than the rich where they steal it from your back pocket as they do there every April.

Hound Dog wrote:

At least here, as opposed to the United States, they are taking money from you up front for the workers rather than the rich where they steal it from your back pocket as they do there every April.

Seems to be here there is much less of a hidden agenda after an obligatory song and dance, the intent of which is to be quite circumspect.

Went from Pátzcuaro to Morelia on the Purépechas bus on Saturday to Xangari bus stop. Then returned on Monday morning. No sign of checkpoint visible in that area.

On Friday, drove in our van past the same area, and again, no sign of checkpoint, nor on our return early in the afternoon.

Maybe the operativo is concluded, at least for the near future?

Someone on another board referenced an article saying that US and Mexico authorities agreed to work together to crack down on cars stolen from the US and then brought to Mexico. Apparently this stemmed from high levels of auto theft in some border states.

Jim

I recently saw an interview with our police chief in which he stated that approximately 60% of the vehicles stolen in Albuquerque are across the border within 6 hours of being stolen. If the thieves time it right, more often than not the vehicle owners haven't even discovered or reported the theft when the vehicle is SOB. Back in December, we visited San Antonio, TX and there was an expose about the cartels ordering vehicles by make, color and equipment from their boys in the San Antonio area to be transported into MX.

Don Cuevas wrote:

Went from Pátzcuaro to Morelia on the Purépechas bus on Saturday to Xangari bus stop. Then returned on Monday morning. No sign of checkpoint visible in that area.

On Friday, drove in our van past the same area, and again, no sign of checkpoint, nor on our return early in the afternoon.

Maybe the operativo is concluded, at least for the near future?

What a difference a week makes. No, looks like it's still on and more determined than ever to get a mordidia. A Pátzcuaro couple heading into Morelia a few days ago were stopped in such check-point and were detained because they only carried copies of their New York vehicle registration and copies of main passport pages, not the originals. The officer told them they could not proceed any further without them.

After the expat driver protested for 15 minutes and became exhausted of such he asked if there was a fine that could be paid. Well of course. The officer scribbled down $927mx and let the driver drop that inside his citation book, thanked him and they were on their merry way nearly one thousand pesos lighter.

Today's Quatratín has an article about how many vehicles they snagged and citations issued - legitimate ones, I expect. The new article at http://www.quadratin.com.mx/Noticias/Sucesos/Rinde-buenos-resultados-Operativo-de-Verificacion-Vehicular includes some phone numbers that may be good to jot down in case of the need to lodge a complaint or report violation, Oficinas Secretaría de Seguridad Publica - 066, 089 are both like hotline numbers. Also 443 113 4300, 4310, and 4311 at extensions 103, 117, 133, 134, and 148.

If it looks like you may be arguing with the officer over some petty violation and you do not wish to pay a $1000 mordida - essentially, most of us really have no legitimate violation, just a condition of the law that applies to us not to non visa holders - I suspect pulling out of your wallet a list of these phone numbers in plain view may help to cut short said argument.

Some locals I know that have been stopped and actually did have violations or irregular paperwork documents on their vehicles paid $200mx mordidas. If for some reason you find it more expedient to pay a mordida and end the hassle one thing to keep in mind is that mordidas are often based on apparent ability and willingness to pay - it IS supposed to "bite" a bit. Don't be willing to hand-over $1000 pesos just on the asking. Locals pay $200 for actually having violations and irregularities, you are basically legal despite that some officer may insist otherwise. Your irregularity, if it actually exists at all, is probably worth no more than a $50 peso bite any other day.

I should know this by heart but isn't there some sort of limitation on just which enforcement agencies can ask for certain documents? Seems to me that there was a form letter being passed around which essentially provided a section in Spanish that one could hand to a policeman requesting the wrong documentation. I realize that it can be intimidating to butt heads with these guys but aren't they essentially preying on our ignorance?

Another possible cause for this new enforcement could be that 20,000 Michoacan registered vehicles have not paid their endorsement fees for 2011 as yet:
http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldemorelia/notas/n2083292.htm

There are cars running around town that haven't been paid for many years, plates that came from the types issued about three generation of plates back. They are probably citing for these also but the people just pay the mordida and try not to run into a checkpoint in the future. They aren't paying $1000 mordida either.

This two-month campaign has other roots and a large directive to crackdown on irregular vehicles of many classifications, mainly ones with foreign plates but they are also looking for arms and drugs which frequently are being used foreign-plated vehicles. It is going on in other states as well.

The gringos have temporary-imported vehicles that many police are not familiar with laws covering them, though they are learning. There is Articulo 61 that explains that import law for foreigners but these checkpoints are being used to fleece whoever and whatever they can. Matters little how in-compliance you are they can find something or even plant something. They are expecting something for their time and effort.